C.G Jung and the Machine (Interviewed by Kaarle Nordenstreng, Feb 1961)
Did you pronounce it like this?
You read it very, very correctly. Being an where
I never saw this. This is the only. . Which is translated, which translated into finish from you. Yes. Ah, I never saw, saw it. Mm-hmm. , I, I think you have very much to, to tell just for, well, that was my, my purpose and my ambition to tell the world something. But I have learned myself with my patience. But I think that as you just said, most of the people of our day have not understood it, but I'm sure that future, yeah, the future I see you see the young generation is already better than the older generation.
Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Welcome. Because I, I, I am generation has, has experienced something of the world. The, the older generation hasn't digested yet. Mm-hmm. that they simply couldn't deal with it. Mm-hmm. , what have they done with it? With the last World War mm-hmm. in Germany. Nobody has to trusted it, but very, and of course all the other people hadn't had not accessed it either.
They are quite satisfied with the fact, thank God we are all Germans. You see quite, that is how they reacted and the Germans said, oh, we hadn't done it. They have done it. These people, these national socialists who, who, oh, whom we got rid of happy enough. You know? I know there's nothing, nothing animal.
I think this is one of the best best books just now concerning the Western culture. And well, it, I tried to write it as simply as possible, you know? And I thought it would convey something. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. It is, but I keep very quiet about it. I even don't mention it because they don't like it.
They don't like it. They don't like it. The general public Yes. Does, but all the, the people who write very, they don't want to look into themselves.
Mm-hmm. , because you see it, it, it tells have very body. It is this man's business. It is my business. Yes, I am. and that is a, a sort of moral conclusion. They dislike mm-hmm. . And so certain things are going into the public, like for instance, the terminals, mm-hmm. complex, a complex that is in the newspapers everywhere.
Mm-hmm. . Yes. That is my creation. Yes. And that is a psychological. Iver extrovert, even the time, the time conductor here in Zurich knows that are introverts and extroverts. Mm-hmm. That all know went into, into, and then the idea of, of people who, who, who think and, and such that don't think that are more feeling.
Such things go into the public. Mm-hmm. , even if ever a professor says that is all nonsense,
Find that, that there is also a person, a person as you to see and realize everything. This well couldn't help it. You know, I, I had to do with people who needed to know it. I'm a doctor. Mm-hmm. , I'm an Alienist. And so I have to do with people who. You know, the neurotic or mentally unstable person suffers from the conditions, the social conditions of a time, very much more than the owner individual.
He has more sensitivity and so he suffers from the bridges of the time or of the circumstances and. , he expresses this suffering in his ways more clearly than the ordinary person who, who can put up practically with anything. Mm-hmm. , this is any condition. It is just here. And that is, that is really talk to a relatively educated patient of.
Mm-hmm. , I could talk like that. Mm-hmm. a man who asks me about the questions of the time and who wants me to explain to him why things are how I say Oh, mm-hmm. . And and then I translated it into a more litera style, you know, for, for the general public that made the book. One of times, you know, I have discussed these matters with, with educated people.
And and so once I thought I will put it down into writing mm-hmm. , which the outcome of so, so many discussions with intelligent people, highly educated people, middle class people. and even very simple and unpretentious patients, you know that had no particular education who simply suffered under the conditions of our time.
Mm-hmm. and they represent the fire of average, of the public. . And so what I have to talk to them, I, I can equally well talk to the whole world. Mm-hmm. , because everybody is, is a member of our time and of our society mm-hmm. . And so it is everywhere, more or less the same. Once you talk about religious things, you, no matter where you are, , you hear the same questions.
You have have been formally traveling a good deal, often in America and in France, England Germany, and, and everywhere. I have a, a, a society to talk to as the audience and everywhere I back to the same questions. Tell, I ask the same, the same questions, and I can give the same answers. Because it is a, the, the actual situation is valid everywhere, even in India and which is, I've talked with to Chinese, I've talked to to Hindus.
I was in India and talked to Hindus. Well, they have the same.
I'm not, I'm not a machine now. I don't respect machines, but machines are everywhere today. Yes, yes. They can't be every. Free and lies are everywhere. Price, for instance, are everywhere. I don't pay pay respect by respect to them. I, I don't dictate my behavior. Only takes staged arrangements. That is no good and, and.
It is only useful when it takes the hrs. Mm-hmm. . Yes, it is. We have some linguistic troubles also in Finland because I know, I know. They, they do not understand your English speaking. I must everything translate Of course. Yes. And, and uh, so why don't you have a gachet that darn slate. It's too stupid, you see, cannot even translate
of the servants.
You have also in this book, very much told about individualism to what that is, simply because if the individual doesn't do it, nobody is doing it. Mm-hmm. If I'm not doing it, nobody's doing it. Mm-hmm. And therefore I speak of in individuals. Mm-hmm. , if anything sh, sh must come into reality. It only can come into reality through the individual and not a crowd.
Mm-hmm. , if you are man, you always look at the next men and say, and. Is he going to do it naturally? He's going to do it then I having to do it
Yeah, it is So, it is so, but it is very use a lot today to be crowds. Yeah. Yeah. That's the cheapest. You are safe in numbers and particularly safe that you have to do nothing because they will do it.
fine. The protection one seeks in numbers. Mm-hmm. one hopes them to escape. But this time, you know, everybody is asked. Therefore, I insist upon the individual. Mm-hmm. , if you don't do it, if I don't do it, nothing happens. Mm-hmm. , quite true, quite true. But you see, if I as a doctor tell something to my. What he ought to do.
I say, and you are perfectly free to ask me, do you do it in your own case? Mm-hmm. , and if I cannot answer it, or if I tell you a lie, it won't work, you know? Then everything I say, speak is hollow. Mm-hmm. , it's only full and it has substance. When I am doing what I ought to do, I ought to do. And if I don't take my individuality as a serious proposition, I simply won't do what it ought to do.
But in just in our day, people tell very much. They know very much, but they, they do not think that I must. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do that. They make difference between preaching to other that is cheap. Mm-hmm. , but preaching towards Hal, that is very unpopular. in nowaday, people make difference between the form and that what is there inside in the contents.
The contents? Mm-hmm. , well, they told, they talk words. Words, which are empty. Mm-hmm. , because there are no deeds behind it. Mm. . That is a question that I have, I have for many years thought about because in school, in school education, it is very, very important thing. Yeah. They, they, the teacher tells that you, you must not smoke.
Mm-hmm. and after, after. Lecture he goes to, to dining room and then he smokes. Sure. Yes. Such a man has no authority
when we must stop now. Well, so may I, may I take a little.
The snapshot I have here camera. Yeah. I would, so likely I would. So, but it so dark. Possibly. It is so dark. Yes. But, but if I take half, half second, half a second note, it makes everything pla but, but the. Natural light is best. uhhuh . I, I never use any, any bleeds? No, it is, no, no. Flash Uhhuh. . I can put on a light here.
Well if you a little. So, so that way. That way. Very fine.
So once more , can you bit so, so
I think once more if bit.
Thank you so much. And I, I am very grateful to, to. . Well, you are now your chance. Mm.
here. I would like that you, you would read a little bit of this book to, to my mm-hmm. tape.
why should I ? No, no, no. I can, I can also read them and say that that Professor Yung is there inside . Well, you have to translate it there. Nevertheless. Fi it is not my, my original. Yes, yes. And you know, it is artificial when I read something. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And then my. Personality doesn't come through because it is imitating a machine.
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , you are quite true. I know myself. You don't appreciate radio and television. Well, as soon as it is staged, artificially arranged. Mm-hmm. . It's dead. If anybody takes me while I'm talking like that, that's life. Mm-hmm. , because I. Subservient into a machine. I, I, myself, and I talk to a human being, and I'm not pressed into the form of, of a machine.
Mm-hmm. , when I'm pressed into the form of, into the server of a machine, then I'm just part of a machine, and then I'm unreal. Well, It's quite true life. Quite true.
Good enough now. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you so much for this visit. It has been. , very important. Good luck to you. Good luck to you. The same to you, . And if you have something with a picture in it, send it to me. I mean, if you publish something yes. Yes. Send it to me. Well you, but well, you have a picture in it.
Mm-hmm. , but about this, this radio program, you, you don't understand anything, but I can No, no, no. You, I can't understand it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. . wouldn't help me. Mm-hmm. Finn is very much out of my sphere. , but Finn and and and Turkish and no, Finnish and Finland and Switzerland are very like, . Each other maybe?
Yes. Maybe Finn people and, mm-hmm. and Swiss people. Yeah. They are quite, it is quite possible. That's quite possible. They are quite similar, yes. But the language, you know, is mm-hmm. Being an entirely foreign language, you know, like Hungarian or Turk that's just, that is beyond me. Mm-hmm. , I hope that, Your ideas will expand more and more , so do I whether Very fine.
Goodbye. Thank you. One more. Good luck to you. The same to you.